TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
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April 22nd, 2015 at 11:23:57 AM permalink
Hi All,

Looking for some help and insight on this. Have been going to Borgata for over 10 years and play mostly blackjack, i probably go on average once a month or every other month. I recently logged into my Rewards account and noticed all my offers were gone and comp room dates were gone. I called them up and was transferred to a table games manager and told that I have been classified as a skilled player and therefore going forward I can come play bj but must follow their rules of playing one hand, betting limits and they have the right to shuffle halfway through the shoe. I may have gotten some of the exact details wrong with what she said but it was along those lines. To be honest with you I had no idea what skilled player even meant and when I asked the table games mgr, all she said was since I am not profitable to them anymore they can refuse to provide me with comp dollars moving forward.
I was still confused about this and looked up skilled player which led me to advantage playing, card counting, and this forum. I do not count cards or do anything to gain an advantage. I usually go to the no mid shoe entry pit at Borgata and go to the $25 or $50 minimum tables. I cash in 1k-2k usually and will usually start off firing $100 and then increase it slowly if I am on a good winning streak. If I lose a bunch of hands in a row and feel like I am a little unlucky or running bad I will bet the minimum 25-50 and finish off the shoe. If I hit a few double downs or win a few hands in a row I will add to my bet. Normally once I get to $500 a hand range is where I max out and I only play one hand. The only times I will play a second hand is when the dealer is seemingly on a hot streak and everyone on the table agrees someone should play an extra hand to break it up a little and usually after that I go back to one hand.
Could it be that on a recent session when I was running good they figured I was counting. If they hired a team of people to root out card counters, they are not doing a good job because I am not a card counter.
I have a host who I reached out to and he said this was out of his hands and could not do anything. It just sucks because whenever I do go to AC, I prefer to play there, have a host, get rooms and eat most of my meals down there. Just wanted to see what everyone thinks I should do, and if there is any chance I may be affected if I play at other AC properties or even Vegas. I called one other time and the shift manager guy I spoke to suggested I call another time and ask for the VP or Director of table games, but it felt like he was just trying to pass the buck and not really help answer my questions.


I also searched through previous threads and someone had a similar situation to me but back in 2012 so not sure if anything has changed since then. Also saw some posts from some user named Lemieux but seemed like everyone thought he was overly paranoid or lying.

thanks in advance!
surrender88s
surrender88s
Joined: Jun 23, 2013
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April 22nd, 2015 at 11:34:40 AM permalink
If I were you I would try writing a formal letter saying the above, and ask them to review your account as a long term customer? Do you have won/loss records from them or your own records? Proving a long term loss (before comps) may help.
"Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1." -Warren Buffett on risk/return
Avincow
Avincow
Joined: Oct 17, 2014
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April 22nd, 2015 at 12:05:13 PM permalink
lol so you look more like a counter than the counters do. I'll tell you why you got flagged: your bet spread. In order to make money in blackjack, you have to bet more money when the count is high and bet as little as possible when count is low. If you bet a lot of money when count is good, you make more money. You went from $25 to $500, that's 1-20 spread which is very aggressive from a card counter's point of view. A good card counter would never spread that much under typical conditions. Why? Because the more you spread, the more you look like a counter, and the more likely you will get a skills check done on you. Surveillance probably did a skills check on you, and just by dumb luck, you happened to be increasing bets with the count. Or it could be that you were winning and had a huge spread, at which point they didn't even do a skills check, they just soft barred you. If that is the case, then they are really doing themselves a disservice. They are losing a good customer.

I say you should ask them to review tapes of your play. They will see that you're not a counter. If they don't change their minds, well then, forget them! Go to a better place where they appreciate your business. Not all casinos are paranoid. You should be able to bet however you want if you are just playing blackjack and not counting. What kind of rules where they giving you over there anyway? Why don't you take a trip to vegas such as the aria where they have good rules: double deck s17. The guys over there are actually competent and will actually know whether you are counting or not.
AceCrAAckers
AceCrAAckers
Joined: Jul 12, 2011
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April 22nd, 2015 at 12:13:53 PM permalink
The casino are in the business to win your money. If they give you comps, it is cost of doing business. They get you drunk so that you will stay and lose your money. They give you a room so you can stay at their property and lose your money. The feed you at their property so you will stay at their property and ...... you guessed it, so you will lose your money. If you are a winning player, they will cut you off. Casino host are there to have you gamble, and have you lose your money. F@@@ them. They don't want your business and since casinos are private property, they can stop you from playing there.

Just go to the table game manager and say that you will double all hard 12, and hit all hard 17, and see what kind of comps you get.

FYI, I had Trop shuffle on me with 3/4 of the shoe remaining when I increased my bet. I didn't get any comps because I did not show them my ID. I had 20k at Trump Plaza and they wanted me to give them my id so they could comp me a room and a meal. I told them no thanks. When they kept pestering me, I grabbed a purple chip and asked how many night I can stay with this. I grabbled a stack of 20 purple and asked if I can fill a bathtub with Dom with this.

Telling them you are not and advantage player or a card counter does not matter. They are pricks who want your money. They don't want to hear anything from you so just go away and tell them to f@@@ themselves. Anyone who tells you that casinos are providing you a form of entertainment will also agree with the statement that dope dealers are providing addict with medicine. Tell Borgata to they are idiots for not allowing a losing bj player to play at their property. If you are a winning player, than just take the winnings and play somewhere else.
Edward Snowden is not the criminal, the government is for violating the constitution!
mrfrancks
mrfrancks
Joined: Nov 11, 2013
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April 22nd, 2015 at 12:22:00 PM permalink
What is the largest win you have ever had at Borgata?
sodawater
sodawater
Joined: May 14, 2012
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April 22nd, 2015 at 1:04:43 PM permalink
Quote: AceCrAAckers

They don't want your business and since casinos are private property, they can stop you from playing there.
.



This is not true in NJ. The NJ Supreme Court ruled that casinos are public places of business and cannot bar skilled players.

What they can do is shuffle whenever they want, limit you to a certain betting size, limit you to one hand, take away your rooms and your comp dollars and your cushy amphora lounge.

But they can't stop you from playing.


If I were the original poster, I would take my business elsewhere for a while. Plenty of stores would be happy to host a blackjack player of that level.
TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
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April 22nd, 2015 at 1:25:12 PM permalink
thanks surrender88s, I was contemplating emailing or writing a formal letter. They have my win/loss #s from 2012,2013,1014 still available on their site and I was up in 2012, down in 2013 and up in 2014, all for around the same amount. But I know I had some brutal years before that where I was probably definitely down for a couple years in a row.
TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
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April 22nd, 2015 at 1:36:16 PM permalink
Yea Avincow thanks for the feedback, from reading through a bunch of these other threads I do see where my bet spread could have been noticed, but I was sort of just adding or pressing my bet trying to ride a lucky streak. But yea I definitely do think it was definitely unfortunate luck that maybe the count was good while I was increasing my bets. Borgata has a few different pits but the one I was playing at is 6 decks, no mid shoe entry and dealer stands on all 17s. Vegas does sound good right about now but usually I think I used to go maybe a couple times a year but these days we just need to wait for someone having his bachelor party there as an excuse to go lol so maybe once a year if anything.
TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
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April 22nd, 2015 at 1:52:12 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

This is not true in NJ. The NJ Supreme Court ruled that casinos are public places of business and cannot bar skilled players.

What they can do is shuffle whenever they want, limit you to a certain betting size, limit you to one hand, take away your rooms and your comp dollars and your cushy amphora lounge.

But they can't stop you from playing.


If I were the original poster, I would take my business elsewhere for a while. Plenty of stores would be happy to host a blackjack player of that level.




thanks sodawater, I guess I could go elsewhere but I think just knowing that I was wrongly accused is just irking me. Man you are making me miss the rooms and that Amphora Lounge now...wish I would've eaten there last time if I knew I might never be allowed back. Do you think it is worth me trying to get my privileges back?
TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 10
April 22nd, 2015 at 2:00:46 PM permalink
Quote: mrfrancks

What is the largest win you have ever had at Borgata?



Probably around 5k. Usually when I am up a decent amount I start to think of when to shut it down. Just hate that feeling of playing out the shoe a little longer and ending up back at square one thinking why didnt I just get up. My biggest loss was also in the 5k+ range, just running bad and on tilt sometimes.

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