650 Hours of Blackjack Play
So I started keeping records starting in Jan., 2011. Won $ $1,500 in the beginning and then went on a 60-day losing streak that eventually ended with me being $9,500 down. After about two more months I was back to even. Then, for the next couple months I switched from being in the red to being in the black thirteen times. From this point on, after about 6 months of play, I’ve maintained being in the black.
At one point I was up $34,800 and I went on a losing streak where I lost $ 20,800 before I righted myself. The highest I’ve been is $86,250 in winnings. This was about September of 2013. Since then I’ve gone down as low as $72,700 in winnings. As of today I’m up about $76,500.
Playing blackjack by yourself is great practice. And you don’t have to tip the dealer
Quote: GreasyjohnI have been playing about a half-hour or so of blackjack every day for the last 3.5 years. This is just practice at home. SD, H17, DOA, DAS, RSA. Playing $25 to $200 a hand, opening for $100. I never more than doubled my bet or reduced it by more than half. Once I reach 50% pen I play the rest of the hands at $25 each and use basic strategy. That way I can check to see if I’m counting accurately.
So I started keeping records starting in Jan., 2011. Won $ $1,500 in the beginning and then went on a 60-day losing streak that eventually ended with me being $9,500 down. After about two more months I was back to even. Then, for the next couple months I switched from being in the red to being in the black thirteen times. From this point on, after about 6 months of play, I’ve maintained being in the black.
At one point I was up $34,800 and I went on a losing streak where I lost $ 20,800 before I righted myself. The highest I’ve been is $86,250 in winnings. This was about September of 2013. Since then I’ve gone down as low as $72,700 in winnings. As of today I’m up about $76,500.
Playing blackjack by yourself is great practice. And you don’t have to tip the dealer
Ya but you also don't get to keep the winnings. I'll gladly tip off a few thousand to get that $76,500.
Quote: GreasyjohnPlaying blackjack by yourself is great practice. And you don’t have to tip the dealer
You don't have to tip, but you're stuck playing with the same stupid dealer the entire time too.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYa but you also don't get to keep the winnings. I'll gladly tip off a few thousand to get that $76,500.
I'll tip $5000, even $10k! :D
Quote: sodawaterI am 100 percent sure I am ahead on Wizard's practice craps game. But good luck collecting.
I'm definitely ahead on Mississippi Stud. I made a four of a kind betting $100 fake antes! :(
Quote: GreasyjohnI told a story about 650 hours of play. Yes, it was practice only, but the results were real in the sense that it could happened like it did. It shows that a $20,000 loss can happen. If the only responses I get are one liners and jokes, often not even related to my post, then I'm sorry I wrote it.
I'm not kidding; I was serious. Why spend that much time practicing for free if you are playing a winning game? Sounds like a waste of money to me.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm not kidding; I was serious. Why spend that much time practicing for free if you are playing a winning game? Sounds like a waste of money to me.
I play this game to keep myself in tune. Practicing improves one's counting and familiarization with the game. The more you play the better you become. I only go to Vegas two or three times a year so I like a mock game, and so there is no waste of money. I appreciate your input AoC. I remember your help and input when I first joined this forum with my "prime numbers" thread.
Quote: GreasyjohnI play this game to keep myself in tune. Practicing improves one's counting and familiarization with the game. The more you play the better you become. I only go to Vegas two or three times a year so I like a mock game, and so there is no waste of money.
Oh, no local games? That's different. I have a good local-ish game so it makes no sense to practice for free on my kitchen table, when I can practice and make money at the same time at a casino.
Quote: GreasyjohnI have been playing about a half-hour or so of blackjack every day for the last 3.5 years.
good story!
This is way better than a simulation.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm not kidding; I was serious. Why spend that much time practicing for free if you are playing a winning game?
I play blackjack in a casino almost every day. I'm going to say about 300 days a year. And I still practice a half hour or so a day at home almost every day as well. My preferred method of practice is dealing cards to myself or my partner at my blackjack table (purchased from Sahara sale). To me this simulates the game much more realistically than playing on a computer as some player do. I also still flip through 200 flashcards 2-3 times a week, usually while watching TV.
However, I don't keep track of results as Greasyjohn is doing. I don't use my practice as a simulator, as far as analyzing results. I use a simulator as a simulator. Lol But I did find Greasyjohns results interesting. Playing a decent single deck game, he has a decent win over the long run of 650 hour which you would expect, but his results also show the extreme fluctuation involved to get there.
Quote: kewljI play blackjack in a casino almost every day. I'm going to say about 300 days a year. And I still practice a half hour or so a day at home almost every day as well. My preferred method of practice is dealing cards to myself or my partner at my blackjack table (purchased from Sahara sale). To me this simulates the game much more realistically than playing on a computer as some player do. I also still flip through 200 flashcards 2-3 times a week, usually while watching TV.
However, I don't keep track of results as Greasyjohn is doing. I don't use my practice as a simulator, as far as analyzing results. I use a simulator as a simulator. Lol But I did find Greasyjohns results interesting. Playing a decent single deck game, he has a decent win over the long run of 650 hour which you would expect, but his results also show the extreme fluctuation involved to get there.
I have a friend who purchased a 21 table complete with shoe, cards and chairs that used to belong to the El Rancho. Picked it up for $900. This was about 10 years ago. After a couple of years he was tired of it and sold it off.
Quote: BuzzardI made a mental bet and lost my mind. At least it was a small loss.
Buzz I don't like most of your posts but this one made me giggle.
Quote: GreasyjohnUpdate: Today I shuffled about 10 times and dealt the first hand. SD game remember. Both me and the dealer got aces. If I did the math right the chances of that happening is one in 270,725. At 150 hands an hour it would take about 1,800 hours on average to achieve that. Another statistic I'll add here is that playing with a high bet of $200 it's possible to have $1,600 out on just one hand. I don't think I ever had out more than $800 on one hand during my 650 hours of play, and that happened a lot of times. (Once I was playing DD at the Stratosphere. After the shuffle, on the first two hands, both the dealer and I got blackjacks. In both the dealer had a 10-value up-card. How rare is that?)
You allow yourself to DAS in your single-deck practice game? What rules do you use? Do you have an edge off the top?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYou allow yourself to DAS in your single-deck practice game? What rules do you use? Do you have an edge off the top?
It's all in my OP AoC
Quote: GreasyjohnIt's all in my OP AoC
Quote: GreasyjohnSD, H17, DOA, DAS, RSA
Plugging those rules into the WoO calculator, I get a player edge off the top if using full composition-dependent strategy.
I'm curious to know why you use this game to practice. I assume that you can't actually find this game without a time machine (can you?) but a lot of the playing variations would not be useful in any other game.
It would definitely be a fun game to play though. I don't know how good you are with remembering deck composition (can you remember every card?) but I would enjoy the challenge of making the right decisions in this game.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAhh... the old-style rules where you have a 0.02% edge off the top.
I'm curious to know why you use this game to practice. I assume that you can't actually find this game without a time machine (can you?) but a lot of the playing variations would not be useful in any other game.
It would definitely be a fun game to play though. I don't know how good you are with remembering deck composition (can you remember every card?) but I would enjoy the challenge of making the right decisions in this game.
I can find this game in DD. I play this game because it allows me a lot of decision making. And no, I can't remember every card (but Stuey could). I use Hi-Opt 1 with an ace side count. I've used this count in an occasional shoe game.
Quote: BuzzardI made a mental bet and lost my mind. At least it was a small loss.
There was an old story in one of John Scarne's books. A guy is standing at the roulette wheel and after a couple of spins he says, “ Oh blankety blank” and hands the croupier a $1. The croupier says, “Sir, what is this for?’ The guy says that he had a mental bet on whatever the number was and he lost it, so he is paying the casino the $1 he owed them. The croupier kept the $1 for the house. Then the next bet the guy’s all happy when the ball lands on a number. The guy says, “ I won! I had mental bet on that number” ( whatever it was). The house was obliged to pay him since they collected his $1 bet on the number he lost on.
In Scarne’s book, I believe it was The Complete Guide To Gambling, he states that all the casinos are now wise to this stunt.
So you've played and logged about 65,000 hands or about 8 months for a full timer. I echo Lone Wolfs suggestion. You'd get hours of entertainment, increased education, and easier results history. A couple of concerns that might put your numbers a little out of whack is I doubt you'd get to play very long (if you're good) at 1 to 8 spread for SD. The 2nd is penetration. Most profits are made (for me anyway) in that 6th and 7th round - when I can get it. Sorry if I missed it, but what count do you employ?Quote: GreasyjohnI have been playing about a half-hour or so of blackjack every day for the last 3.5 years. This is just practice at home. SD, H17, DOA, DAS, RSA. Playing $25 to $200 a hand, opening for $100. I never more than doubled my bet or reduced it by more than half. Once I reach 50% pen I play the rest of the hands at $25 each and use basic strategy.
Quote: kewljI play blackjack in a casino almost every day. I'm going to say about 300 days a year. And I still practice a half hour or so a day at home almost every day as well. My preferred method of practice is dealing cards to myself or my partner at my blackjack table (purchased from Sahara sale). To me this simulates the game much more realistically than playing on a computer as some player do. I also still flip through 200 flashcards 2-3 times a week, usually while watching TV.
However, I don't keep track of results as Greasyjohn is doing. I don't use my practice as a simulator, as far as analyzing results. I use a simulator as a simulator. Lol But I did find Greasyjohns results interesting. Playing a decent single deck game, he has a decent win over the long run of 650 hour which you would expect, but his results also show the extreme fluctuation involved to get there.
I'd say I'm on the prowl around 300 days a year. But I doubt my time invested is as heavy as yours. Practice, practice, practice during lonely hours in the gym is why Kobe and Larry Bird can make those impossible shots....plus they are not afraid to take them cuz they've made it thousands of times. Also, I tend to watch and count a little before I jump right in each day. Sort of like a warm up, plus I want to get my brain on blackjack and push out life's interfering thoughts.
This moses from Blackjack the Forum?Quote: mosesI'd say I'm on the prowl around 300 days a year. But I doubt my time invested is as heavy as yours. Practice, practice, practice during lonely hours in the gym is why Kobe and Larry Bird can make those impossible shots....plus they are not afraid to take them cuz they've made it thousands of times. Also, I tend to watch and count a little before I jump right in each day. Sort of like a warm up, plus I want to get my brain on blackjack and push out life's interfering thoughts.
yesQuote: LonewolfThis moses from Blackjack the Forum?
You play long enough and you'll see it all. But I still haven't seen myself get 5,5,5,A,5 (3,315,000:1 chance if I did the math right. Remember, the ace can only be in the fourth position. But come to think of it, the odds are greater than 6,000,000:1 because one would DD with 5,5 in most situations). A couple weeks ago the dealer got A,A,A,A,J,Q. Four aces as the first four dealer 's cards, in SD, is about 270,000:1.
Remember, I'm playing SD, $25 -$200 a hand, opening for $100. And the last half of the deck is played with BS at $25 a hand.
Just yesterday I had a $150 wager where I split 7s into three hands and DD on two of them. So I had a $750 bet on one "hand." Although it's possible to have $1,600 on one "hand" (split to four hands with four DD on a $200 initial wager), I can't remember ever having more than about $800 out on one round after about 800 hours of play. And I can't remember winning or losing more than about $1,000 in one deck.
Just a couple minutes ago I played a few rounds. On the last hand of the deck all four aces came out in this final round. I had A,3,2,2,3 and the dealer has A,A,2,A,3.
I was hoping to report that I'd gone past $86,250 but since it hasn't happened I wanted to update.
Edit: Five days later, 10-15, I'm at + $72,500. So in six hours of play I've lost about $8,500.
So many people see good results at home or with simulations but when real money is on the line in real casinos it's not even close.
dam I live here and I don't think I have been out of town 87 times.Quote: GreasyjohnI've been to Vegas 87 times in the last 25 years, so I'm well aware of the differences between practicing at home and playing live in a casino. One of the differences often overlooked is the combination of being tired from the travel and amped up at the same time with the anticipation of playing. This can put your mind in a bit of a fog. Plus, for me at least, I sleep less on vacation in Vegas than at home.
Quote: GreasyjohnQuick update: Haven't been practicing as much lately. Perhaps 850 hours of play, total, since I started in Jan 2011. Was down to $69,800 yesterday. Today, $72,700. Haven't gotten back to my all-time high if $86,250 which I acheived in Sept. 2013.
With almost no house edge and just okay penetration the rules make this a very beatable game with a 1-4 spread, yet you're down $14,050 in 18 months. That's blackjack for you but I would not be satisfied with those results.
A few questions if I may. I assume you are playing heads up. What about penetration? Are you using the "rule of 6" or some other shuffle point? What about index play? Have you considered a level 2 count such as Hi-Opt ll or Zen?
Quote: 1BBWith almost no house edge and just okay penetration the rules make this a very beatable game with a 1-4 spread, yet you're down $14,050 in 18 months. That's blackjack for you but I would not be satisfied with those results.
A few questions if I may. I assume you are playing heads up. What about penetration? Are you using the "rule of 6" or some other shuffle point? What about index play? Have you considered a level 2 count such as Hi-Opt ll or Zen?
1BB, if you look through this thread you'll see all the parameters of my play, but I'll highlight: I use a 1-8 spread, $25-$200, open for $100 and use index plays. I never jump my bets up or down. Once I reach 50% Pen I revert to basic strategy and flat bet $25 a hand for the rest of the deck. Biggest losing trend was about $30,000. I use Hi-Opt 1 with an ace side count. A level 2 count would be too much for me. But if 5s come out in abundance (or don't) I'll adjust my betting. I also have a technique for keeping track of the ratio of 10s in the deck for insurance decisions.
Quote: Greasyjohn1BB, if you look through this thread you'll see all the parameters of my play, but I'll highlight: I use a 1-8 spread, $25-$200, open for $100 and use index plays. I never jump my bets up or down. Once I reach 50% Pen I revert to basic strategy and flat bet $25 a hand for the rest of the deck. Biggest losing trend was about $30,000. I use Hi-Opt 1 with an ace side count. A level 2 count would be too much for me. But if 5s come out in abundance (or don't) I'll adjust my betting. I also have a technique for keeping track of the ratio of 10s in the deck for insurance decisions.
Sorry, double post.
Quote: Greasyjohn1BB, if you look through this thread you'll see all the parameters of my play, but I'll highlight: I use a 1-8 spread, $25-$200, open for $100 and use index plays. I never jump my bets up or down. Once I reach 50% Pen I revert to basic strategy and flat bet $25 a hand for the rest of the deck. Biggest losing trend was about $30,000. I use Hi-Opt 1 with an ace side count. A level 2 count would be too much for me. But if 5s come out in abundance (or don't) I'll adjust my betting. I also have a technique for keeping track of the ratio of 10s in the deck for insurance decisions.
I did look through the thread, in fact I read every post twice. I saw no mention of index play. How many indices do you use? You're spreading 1-8 but you're betting 4 units off the top. You deal the entire deck giving yourself 100% penetration. No matter the count, you flat bet one unit when half the deck has been dealt. You don't jump your bets up or down? When does the $200 go out? You revert to basic strategy once half the deck has been dealt. Does that mean you stop counting or do you still count for the index plays?
A game with these rules will be very closely watched at most casinos and may even be a counter trap at some. I think it would be difficult, in real life, to spread 1-8 even though you're disguising the spread somewhat by initially betting 4 units.
Quote: 1BBI did look through the thread, in fact I read every post twice. I saw no mention of index play. How many indices do you use? You're spreading 1-8 but you're betting 4 units off the top. You deal the entire deck giving yourself 100% penetration. No matter the count, you flat bet one unit when half the deck has been dealt. You don't jump your bets up or down? When does the $200 go out? You revert to basic strategy once half the deck has been dealt. Does that mean you stop counting or do you still count for the index plays?
A game with these rules will be very closely watched at most casinos and may even be a counter trap at some. I think it would be difficult, in real life, to spread 1-8 even though you're disguising the spread somewhat by initially betting 4 units.
I'm using Hi-Opt 1, as I said. That implies that I'm using index plays, doesn't it? There are index plays for any card combinations. If I open for $100 my max be of $200 would got out as early as the third hand if the running count were say +3 with no aces out (and the bet on the second hand was at least $100). I revert to a flat bet and basic strategy after 50% Pen, but I continue counting to see if I'm accurate when I get to the end of the deck (should be "0" with four aces out). And you're right, a 1-8 spread is pushing it, but I should clarify. I play a DD game, and a 1-8 is strong even then. That's why I play this mock game as I do--to simulate my DD real game. 1-8 spread in SD is not something I'd ever do--more like 1-3 spread.
Quote: AxelWolfdam I live here and I don't think I have been out of town 87 times.
And those 87 trips are visits to Vegas as a counter. It doesn't account for the maybe 15 trips I made before that as a civilian.
Quote: GreasyjohnI have been playing about a half-hour or so of blackjack every day for the last 3.5 years. This is just practice at home. SD, H17, DOA, DAS, RSA. Count: Hi-Opt I with an ace side count. Playing $25 to $200 a hand, opening for $100. I never more than doubled my bet or reduced it by more than half. Once I reach 50% pen I play the rest of the hands at $25 each and use basic strategy. That way I can check to see if I’m counting accurately.
So I started keeping records starting in Jan., 2011. Won $ $1,500 in the beginning and then went on a 60-day losing streak that eventually ended with me being $9,500 down. After about two more months I was back to even. Then, for the next couple months I switched from being in the red to being in the black thirteen times. From this point on, after about 6 months of play, I’ve maintained being in the black.
At one point I was up $34,800 and I went on a losing streak where I lost $ 20,800 before I righted myself. The highest I’ve been is $86,250 in winnings. This was about September of 2013. Since then I’ve gone down as low as $72,700 in winnings. As of today I’m up about $76,500.
Playing blackjack by yourself is great practice. And you don’t have to tip the dealer
Quote: BiggreddDo you practice heads up against the house/dealer or play 2,3,4,5,6 or 7 positions? I also have my own table and practice 6 decks, 7 positions.
I play heads up against the dealer. Been playing this practice game for just over 4 years. Now, I only go to Vegas 2 or 3 times a year, so the practice keeps me in tune. I used to go 6 times a year. If you review this thread some of the crazy hand combinations I've had are mentioned.
I have reviewed your posts in this thread, skipped most of the others. Practicing 7 positions with 6/8 decks you will come across more of those crazy hand combinations.
Quote: GreasyjohnI play heads up against the dealer. Been playing this practice game for just over 4 years. Now, I only go to Vegas 2 or 3 times a year, so the practice keeps me in tune. I used to go 6 times a year. If you review this thread some of the crazy hand combinations I've had are mentioned.
BTW: I deal to all 7 positions 8 times that gives about a 60% penetration. In general you get better then that at most casinos. It just makes it easier for me to keep track of the total number of hand dealt.
I like playing my practice game heads up. Fo me the value is seeing the combinations of cards, adding their totals, canceling out hi/low cards. Seeing 5,7,9 and 9,8,4 and different combinations of 21 just becomes automatic. And I enjoy seeing some of the fantastic losing and winning streaks that can occur. I once had a $20,000 losing streak. Currently, I am about $16,000 below my all time high from 19 months ago. When you see what is possible in practice reality is easier to accept.
Quote: BiggreddWhen you go to Vegas do you play Heads up?, single position?
Double post
Quote: BiggreddWhen you go to Vegas do you play Heads up?, single position?
I play DD, DAS, DA2. And although the best game is heads up it can be enjoyable playing with other players. Sometimes I play 2 hands.
Then, I just got slapped around. I lost so many hands. I'd get 18, the dealer 19. I'd get 20 the dealer would get 21.
I lost $7,000 in about 3 hours. At one point about half way through the slaughter I remember losing 5 big bets in a row. That's $1,000.
It was a disaster. One of the worst losing 3 hour sessions, no, THE worst 3 hours I ever had at this game.
The only consolation I had is that it is all mock!!!!!!!!! It just goes to show you just how shi**y it can get. I thought of AoS somewhere in this madness (at his betting level he would have lost $17,500).
Life's fair isn't it?
