ProfessorApe
ProfessorApe
Joined: Sep 20, 2012
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 32
October 3rd, 2012 at 11:58:02 AM permalink
All,

New to the game as I am, I'm trying to build a bankroll with which I can take my play to a higher level. I started with $500 and, after one reload, have it up to around $1700. I've realized this won't cover much of a spread, and there's a lot of grinding in my future. Nevertheless, I'm curious to see if there are any suggestions on how to maximize what I'm doing at the moment.

The game i play is an e-table, 6d, 50% pen., dobule after split, no resplit, H17 and no surrender. (And yes, I know this game is far less than optimal. But it's what I have to work with). I'm using the unbalanced KISS III count, which calls for spreads of around 1-10. I know that's not sustainable for a limited bankroll like mine, even betting reds. My question is - how low of a spread can/should I employ - or is it even possible to get any "edge" betting less than max units?

And here's where I get to lesson number one - you can't rely on luck to make up for a bad string. I was doing well one day, up a few hundred, and the count was good. I started putting out big (for me) bets - $75 on a $5 table. Five in a row went kerflooie before the shoe ended. Next shoe, I panicked and tried to win it back just as quickly without regard to logic, reason or the count. (I call it plopitis). I rode that all the way to the bottom.

Lesson two came a few weeks later, when I learned that if you triple your money QUIT! One lovely Friday evening I bought in for $500, and left with $1200. The next time I played I bought in for $500, and ran that sucker up to $1500 in about 90 minutes. I was suddenly surprised by my lack of self-control - the ploppy gland was working overtime. I found myself thinking "This is an ATM!". I started betting table max whenever the count was up, even a little. BANG! Three big losses and I'm down to a grand. That's OK, I said, I've at least doubled my money. I kept grinding, and it kept sucking me down, until I had around $125 left. I was able to recover and leave with a $100 win, but all I can think about is the $900 I blew.
1BB
1BB
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
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  • Posts: 5339
October 3rd, 2012 at 12:43:44 PM permalink
With the poor rules and penetration that you describe you'll need a 1-20 spread and a bankroll of at least $10,000. You will also need to employ index play and wonging.

I wouldn't play that game but if forced to I would not be comfortable with a bankroll of less than $20,000.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
sodawater
sodawater
Joined: May 14, 2012
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October 3rd, 2012 at 1:00:24 PM permalink
With the game you describe plus your small bankroll, all you're doing is taking shots. Your risk of ruin probably 100 percent in the long term.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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October 3rd, 2012 at 1:18:55 PM permalink
deleted
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
BigJer
BigJer
Joined: Sep 16, 2012
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 284
October 3rd, 2012 at 1:21:29 PM permalink
A 50% pen is unplayable. I hate to say it but I would save up some money and take a trip to Vegas

Quote:

And here's where I get to lesson number one - you can't rely on luck to make up for a bad string. I was doing well one day, up a few hundred, and the count was good. I started putting out big (for me) bets - $75 on a $5 table. Five in a row went kerflooie before the shoe ended. Next shoe, I panicked and tried to win it back just as quickly without regard to logic, reason or the count. (I call it plopitis). I rode that all the way to the bottom.



BTW that variance does happen of losing 5 in a row is not that uncommon. I've had it happen to me. The only thing you can say is since the count is up then you have to put the money down. Also, in my opinion, I would go with HiLo since you are starting out. I know the EV will not be as much but the I think it is more stable with less risk; from what I have seen anyways. Also, if you start to panic get away from the table!! Doesn't make any difference how much you have won/lost. Just get up and leave! It was hard for me too but to get up and leave, very coldly, is very tough to do. But you have to do it.

Quote:

And here's where I get to lesson number one - you can't rely on luck to make up for a bad string. I was doing well one day, up a few hundred, and the count was good. I started putting out big (for me) bets - $75 on a $5 table. Five in a row went kerflooie before the shoe ended. Next shoe, I panicked and tried to win it back just as quickly without regard to logic, reason or the count. (I call it plopitis). I rode that all the way to the bottom.



See above. Get up and leave when starting to panic.


Quote:

Lesson two came a few weeks later, when I learned that if you triple your money QUIT! One lovely Friday evening I bought in for $500, and left with $1200. The next time I played I bought in for $500, and ran that sucker up to $1500 in about 90 minutes. I was suddenly surprised by my lack of self-control - the ploppy gland was working overtime. I found myself thinking "This is an ATM!". I started betting table max whenever the count was up, even a little. BANG! Three big losses and I'm down to a grand. That's OK, I said, I've at least doubled my money. I kept grinding, and it kept sucking me down, until I had around $125 left. I was able to recover and leave with a $100 win, but all I can think about is the $900 I blew.



Here's a couple of videos that touch on the subjecst:

http://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/starting-a-bankroll/

http://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/coupons-matchplays-tournaments/

http://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/session/
The Terror of Casinos.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
  • Threads: 65
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October 3rd, 2012 at 1:58:39 PM permalink
1BB and ibeatyouraces are 2 of the smartest card counting guys on here: take their advice. Add to your bankroll from your day job and save up for a trip to somewhere that has better offerings. Vegas is good if you're in the west part of the country, Pennsylvania has great rules if you're in the east part.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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October 3rd, 2012 at 2:08:50 PM permalink
deleted
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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October 3rd, 2012 at 7:51:10 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I surely don't proclaim to know everything. Just enough to win :)


That's all you need, right?

Quote:

The best way to make money counting is knowing when NOT to play.


Yep. Sometimes I get a little bummed out that I live in WA state with mediocre rules/limits. Then I see shit like this..50% pen?
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 10363
October 3rd, 2012 at 8:07:34 PM permalink
deleted
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
TIMSPEED
TIMSPEED
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 1246
October 3rd, 2012 at 10:41:12 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

That's all you need, right?


Yep. Sometimes I get a little bummed out that I live in WA state with mediocre rules/limits. Then I see shit like this..50% pen?


Come down to Reno sometime, the room is on me.
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ

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