Ridiculous Craps System

I am a dice dealer at a casino that shall remain nameless. I recently had a player come to my table and play the most ridiculous system I have ever seen. I want to know what the numbers are for the system he is playing.

The system goes like so:

He makes a $5 pass line bet, and a $5 don't pass bet. (If a 12 rolls on the come out, he usually huffs and puffs and storms away from the table)

Once a point is established... if the point is 4 or 10, he puts $20 odds on his don't pass, if the point is 5 or 9 he put $15 odds on his don't pass, and if the point is 6 or 8 he puts $12 odds on his don't pass. So, no matter the point, he always puts enough odds to win $10 if a seven rolls.

Then, after placing his don't pass odds, he puts table-minimum place bets on the inside numbers (so, $22, $17, or $16... depending on the point)

If any of his place bets are paid... he takes down all of his place bets and his don't pass odds... leaving only his pass and don't pass base bets remaining on the table.

As far as I can tell... this system is simply ADDING to the house advantage, but I would like to know what the numbers are for it.

Can you help?

Sounds like a variation of the Doey-Don't system from The Captain of Craps. He must have come up with his own way of doing it that is .... guaranteed to win!

Though placing inside numbers while playing the Dont's is more John Patrick-ish.

I'm hoping you were being phecetious in saying he is guaranteed to win, because it appears to me to be the other way around.

- If a 12 rolls on the come out, he loses $5

- If a 2 or 3 rolls on the come out, he pushes

- If a seven rolls on the come out, he pushes

- If a 7 rolls on the first roll after the come out (or he doesn't get paid on a place bet before a seven), he loses $12, $7, or $6 (depending on the point)

- If he gets paid on a 6 or 8, he wins $7

- If he gets paid on a 5 or 9, he wins $7

For a net LOSS of $16 over time.

Quote: kamp56

I'm hoping you were being phecetious in saying he is guaranteed to win, because it appears to me to be the other way around.

Yep!

*phew*

Thanks for clarifying.

Quote: kamp56

*phew*

Thanks for clarifying.

He isn't really ADDING to the house advantage. The HA is the sum of all the bets. He is simply violating the Wizard's first law which is "Don't hedge your bets".
He is controlling variance which makes him think he has improved the player edge.

When he wins a small amount of money by the end of the night, he thinks his system is working. When he doesn't, he just blames an unlucky number of 12's.

I know he's not adding to the HA. But, I was hoping to get the mathematical analysis of the overall expectation using his hair-brained scheme.

As a dealer, I want people to WIN not lose, and I have tried to explain to him that this system hurts him rather than helps him, but he refuses to believe me. So, I want to have numbers to back up my claims.

Wanting people to win is good, except you know that ain't gonna happen. Therefore, you should be more interested in people having a good time. And a dealer criticizing a players actions doesn't help the player have a good time.

Don't look for the evidence you need to convince this guy that his strategy is bad. Doing so, you might as well tell him he's an idiot. If you really want to help him, you can ask generalized questions to see if he really understands the odds. If so, he's happy with his strategy, and leave him alone. If not, direct him here, and to WoO.

On the other hand, I'm curious. Since he's doing such whacky things, and can be labeled as hedging, why doesn't he throw $1 on the 12 on each come out roll?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Wanting people to win is good, except you know that ain't gonna happen. Therefore, you should be more interested in people having a good time. And a dealer criticizing a players actions doesn't help the player have a good time.

Its a fine line.

A dealer should help the ignorant players and give up trying to help those who've been around for a while and heard it all before.
If a guy SHOULD have more in odds, then at most the dealer makes ONE comment about having as much money on your odds bet as you are willing to risk and a lower flat bet. That's it! Short and sweet and the player takes the hint or he doesn't.

In the above system, its basically someone who won't have high wins and has very few utter loses. He is going to be there enjoying his free drinks for quite awhile as his bankroll never gets any big wins and rarely takes any big losses. Its what he values. Its his style. Therefore its not wrong. It may be stupid, but its not wrong.