place bet martingale

Quote: SanchoPanza

Don't all casinos charge no vig when buy and lay bets are taken down?

Quote: RonC

Some charge the vig up front on a buy 4/10; I've never taken one down, so I don't know if you get the vig back but I would think you would lose it if you took the bet down.

The difference here (I was not clear on this...sorry) is that they do not take the commission on winning bets if they are taken down. I had a 10 buy for $25 along with a come bet. The 10 hits and I am paid the full amount of the win ($50, instead of having to drop $1 for the vig) because I moved the "buy" bet to an "odds" bet on the come bet. Since the buy bet was "taken down" on the win, no vig charged at this casino.

Quote: 7craps

First off, I think we all KNOW that NO system or strategy can win all the time, and some can win more than others. The bad part of almost ALL systems is the large losses that do show while betting a system all the time. There are better times to implement a system but that would be for another thread.

Back to your questions:
You also need to be concerned about the 2,3,11 and 12s that roll before the 7. It would not take 6 straight 7s to wipe you out.
Example rolls:
1)2,7
2)11,2,7
3)11,2,12,7
4)11,2,12,11,7
I think you get the idea.


This is why software like Wincraps are good great tools to have around. You can run many sims using a betting system or strategy and see how often you win and lose and meet certain goals. This sounds like an Auto-bet file I have seen that can be downloaded from Wincraps site. Learning to program and change auto-bet files in Wincraps takes some effort but is well worth it. Just look at some posts by member "goatcabin"

My question to you is you have a $400 session win goal and are you willing to lose the $4000 every time?
I will see if I can set up a sim and find out some results. No guarantee that I will share the results unless all goes well.


Be careful of card craps.
Card Craps in SoCal is NOT dice craps and will never be dice craps.

Sure it has the "appearance" of being like dice craps.
Streaks and frequencies, both ways, per shoe, are consistently 4 to 10 standard deviations from the mean, using actual card rolls and computer generated shoes. I say no more.

Morongo Casino in SoCal uses 2 CSMs and their "card rolls", in my opinion and studies, are more random than just a shoe and appear closer to actual dice rolls frequencies.
But then, we all have an opinion. ( I put this opinion here for a friend of mine that thinks card craps is exactly like dice craps )

Quote: cartytay

yes when I go play the money I take with me I am willing to lose, you cant follow a system like this and quit when the bets get to big to make u uncomfortable, this definately is not for everyone. as far as win craps I dont not know how to program it so I havent even tried but im sure that it is pretty easy for someone who knows wincraps to program the rules for what i do. as far as the cal-craps, i play at san manuel and they play 7 deacks out out 1 shoe, and flip 2 cards at a time. there is no dice what so ever on the table. i dont know if thats good or bad for what im doing but it has worked so far... since OP i have won 2 more sessions and didnt get past level 4 for both of them. i will keep forum updated on progress but as of now Im up 5k on 12 seesions

Quote: cartytay

i know craps is negative expectation game so eventually i will lose, but question is how often should i expect that? it takes 6 7's in a row to completly wipe me out and thankfully i have not seen that.

Quote: cartytay

this is the progression that i follow, i start each shooter at level 2 on 6/8 and 5/9 and level 1 on 4/10
bets are always working, anytime a number is hit i drop those numbers to level 1, anytime shooter 7's out before a combo is hit i increase up 1.

Quote: 7craps

Thanks for the update.



I am currently 50% complete on setting up your "system" in Wincraps. I am finishing up another project.

How long or how many rolls on average does it take you to "earn" your $400 session win?


The math for having 6 7s before any place bet wins (causing your $4k bankroll to bust) would be:(using the craps formula)
[(6/36)/(30/36)]^6 = 0.0064% (.000064)
or 1 in 15625 7s
or 1 in 109375 dice rolls

The median 50%(half above and half below) would be:
1 in 10831 7s
or 1 in 64986 dice rolls

10% chance of bust ( for my 10% friend, in-joke)
1 in 1647 7s
or 1 in 9882 dice rolls
formula for excel:
=LOG(1-0.1)/LOG(1-0.000064)

Quote: 7craps

Once a number goes to level one after a win, you never increase it until it loses (except for the inside #s since they always start out at level#2).

A bet then is never increased after a win.

And you always increase after a loss - only if the number group (place mates) did not win before it lost.

I have been playing in manual mode in Wincraps and just wanted to make sure of the "rules"

I have hit level 6 once for the 4&10 replaying actual Vegas craps table dice rolls. I did hit the big bet and brought both down to $5. Question. What if a level six on one number does not hit? What would be the plan according to your system?