EZ Baccarat...no commission.....panda/dragon bets.....card counting???!!??

Quote: sodawater

The dragon bonus side bet on EZ bacc is indeed countable:

http://apheat.net/2012/08/12/card-counting-the-dragon-bonus-baccarat-side-bet/


However, I am about 99% sure the players you saw betting it were just following the pointless standard procedure of trying to divine statistically meaningless streaks and patterns endemic to all the Asian table games.

Quote: richbailey86

Recently I was in AC at Harrahs for my cousins bachelor party. As you know from my previous thread I stated I followed a player and won and was flamed for it so put your flame throwers away please.

I have a question for people who are familiar with EZ baccarat.....

The people who were at the table with me seemed to have a strategy for when to bet on panda or dragon, they would wait, then bet, and I followed which led to me winning dragon twice which I thought was odd because they call it a suckers bet

For people who consider themselves baccarat pros i wonder if there is a method like counting cars that they use that help them decide when to bet on panda or dragon...or is it just pure luck

insights?

Rich

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I would not recommend taking advice from people who consider themselves baccarat pros.

Quote: djatc

Remember that $6000 downswing I had? Well I made it back in baccarat. Some old mr. Miyagi type told me when to bet and I won. Problem was when I lost he didn't say a word, but when I won he wanted 50%. Actually he had a business card that said Steve Stephens and picked winners at sports for the same rate......

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I am willing to sell my video poker services. I will tell you exactly when to push the button so you win. Remember that the cards are constantly being shuffled so it's all about timing.

Quote: djatc

Shut up and take my money! Lol

Quote: richbailey86

sodawater/tomspur

you guys try this?

Quote: Tomspur

I'm on the other side of the table bud :)

Quote: Tomspur

That's what SHE said :))))

Quote: richbailey86

where are you a dealer

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

He's in surveillance. Head of surveillance, in fact.

Although, he has admitted counting down the occasional double deck game in the past.

Anyway, these side bets are countable but the edge is small and the max bet is always tiny. So you don't make any real money.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

He's in surveillance. Head of surveillance, in fact.

Although, he has admitted counting down the occasional double deck game in the past.

Anyway, these side bets are countable but the edge is small and the max bet is always tiny. So you don't make any real money.

Quote: Tomspur

Have you been keeping a hournal on me Axiom? :)

Yeah I'm in Surveillance and am headed back into operations shortly. I have zero allegiances but my own however :)

There is no money to be made in counting down these side bets. As Axiom has stated the max bet is too low to get a decent advantage.

I would look for other opportunities if I were you.

Quote: richbailey86

gotcha

so when i won the dragon following the others it must have just been luck but it was nice to make so much money so fast....especially at the end of the trip when iw as broke and made some back

i have been googling baccarat strategies and i did see one partner strategy that looks promising but i wont post about it in fear ill be flamed for 24-48 hours

Quote: richbailey86

baccarat strategies

Quote: richbailey86

define "other opportunities"

Quote: Tomspur

Card counting, hole carding, edge sorting, promotions, VP, shuffle tracking (and those are just the legal ones) :)

There are many more people here who can help you. I'm not an AP, just a concerned citizen :)

Quote: richbailey86

id be content finding a break even "strategy" where i dont win or lose but gain comps :)

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Just count cards in a good blackjack game with a small spread (like 1-4 in a shoe game)

Quote: richbailey86

id be content finding a break even "strategy" where i dont win or lose but gain comps :)

Quote: sodawater

Not quite break even, but you could play baccarat, make your first bet on the banker, and then only bet hands when the floorman is watching. If you play at a full table, the game is slow to begin with.

Use any excuse to sit out a hand. Keep score, pretend to be superstitious, mumble nonsense about patterns, take breaks to make calls, use the bathroom, etc.

Quote: richbailey86

dont think i have the mental capacity to count cards.....lol

who offers such small shoes?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

1-4 is your bet spread, not the size of the shoe. In other words, bet 1 unit when you don't have the advantage and 4 units when you do (and go take a bathroom break when it gets really bad). If you are really paranoid you can use a 1-2-4 betting ramp. If you are playing a 6-deck game with good rules (good rules is the key) you will more or less break even and no one will care (they are on the lookout for larger bet spreads). You can get away with this at any level (red-chip, green-chip, black-chip, or even higher if you have the bankroll) and you will get no heat, unless you are Lemieux, in which case they will kick you out any time you come within 6 feet of a blackjack table.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Counting cards is not hard. If you really think you will have an issue with it, use something simple like KO or red 7. Even KO rookie is enough to let you break even at shoe games, even with a small spread, as long as the game has good rules.

I'm pretty sure that you will be able to handle KO Rookie.

Quote: richbailey86

lots of bull on the net, can you link me to the KO rookie

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

It's proprietary. Buy the book. Knockout Blackjack, I think? I like the author. I also bought his advantage yahtzee book, because (1) it was $2, and (2) it's advantage yahtzee!!! How can I not buy that for $2?

The Wizard's Ace-Five count is free (and you can find it on WoO), but, honestly, I'm going to have to suggest going with KO.

Quote: richbailey86

just looked at wizard ace 5 count....wow that is simple....ill also look into KO

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

As long as you stay away from counts that require a true count conversion, the only thing that makes other counts more complicated than A-5 is the number of cards you have to pay attention to. But every card is still +1 or -1, so it's not really harder or more complicated. It might require being a little bit faster, but honestly, shoe games are so slow that it should not be a problem. Eventually you get good at cancelling cards out (ie, you see a +1 card and a -1 card together and you just ignore them, since they add to 0) so you are pretty fast.

I would say, try KO (starting with KO rookie). If you really can't handle it, A-5 is a decent last resort. But I think you will be able to handle it.

Quote: richbailey86

ill order the book

as far as wizards a-5 how does that rank? success?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I mean, I'm sure that he wouldn't put it up there if it didn't work, for some definition of "work". The Wizard definitely knows blackjack. They don't just give blackjack player of the year to anyone.

The bottom line is, I think that you should use the most powerful count that you can use easily without making mistakes, or making it obvious that you are counting. The less powerful a count is, the more you have to spread to break even. Since your goal is just to break even and get comps, you don't want any heat at all. So, smaller bet spreads are better (it will also lower your swings).

For example (and I am just making these numbers up) maybe to break even in a particular game with A-5, you would need to spread 1-5, but with KO rookie you could break even spreading 1-3. 1-3 is preferably because (1) it is less likely to attract attention, and (2) your swings will be smaller.

Another way of looking at it is, if you can spread 1-3, you can raise your minimum bet and your swings will be the same. This will give you better comps.

A-5 is not meant for people who want to take the game seriously. It's meant for someone who wants to show up once in a while and not lose too much money. So, I'm not slamming it, I'm just saying, don't try to use it for more than it was intended.

Quote: richbailey86

When you say small spread you mean go from betting 10 to 30. Not going from betting 10 to 500 then they say wait a minute hes up to something

if I were to use KO then I shouldn't have to worry about getting heat?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Yes, what I say spread 1-3 I mean, for example, spread $10-$30. It would be very difficult to go from betting $10 to $500 without raising some eyebrows, assuming that someone in the casino other than you is more or less awake.

You will get heat if they think that you are counting. If you are spreading 1-3 or 1-4 in a shoe game, they will probably not suspect that you are counting. But of course there are no guarantees.

The point is, the more powerful the system is, the less you have to spread to break even. So, as long as you can use it without making mistakes, something more powerful is better. The other nice thing about KO rookie is that, when you get good at it and comfortable with it, you can "graduate" to the full KO system easily. So you have a path to progress through as you get better. A-5 is a bit of a dead end.