BedWetterBetter
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October 5th, 2015 at 12:01:04 PM permalink
I am a frequent AC bus patron and usually use Academy for the commute. On a recent trip to CET properties, I noticed they switched their distribution of Slot Bonuses from the paper ticket of $25 to a Bonus Download onto your player's card.

Obviously, this cuts down costs and the possibility of multiple bonus play for one individual. The problem is, it is not an instant download. It takes any where from 15 to 20 minutes to show up on your card.

This can be a real hassle as you have to check the balance, then walk around for 10 minutes, go back to your machine and check again. Or sit there like a statue and wait while the time slowly passes.

I also have noticed that free slot play offers in the mail have the same problem, but the time frame for the money to appear after you insert your card is undetermined. I was at a CET property on Thursday around 8 30 pm and showed up for the offer, only to find it was not there. I watched the Steelers game for almost an hour and checked the machine again around 9 45 PM. Still no offer there.

But on my way out the door around 10 05 pm, I checked one last time and there it was! I'm not sure why there would be such a delay for such little money and this is not a good sign of things to come.

Guess CET is not a believer in the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Hoodstar
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October 5th, 2015 at 1:09:19 PM permalink
This is the same company that runs bait and switch scams on its "free rooms," lets its flag ship casinos rot away, and takes more and more benefits away from its high spending members so when they made this move it didn't surprise me.

The reason CET changed the system is because they are run almost 100% by bean counters now. They don't want bus players coming in, using the bonus, and then leaving to go to the boardwalk or whatever. They only want to give the bonus to people who will continue to dump/spend money at their casino.

So you have a couple options. 1, you can wait the 30 minutes to play off the bonus at Bally's/Caesar's/Harrah's. Or 2, you can take the bus to Tropicana or Resorts (I think, I usually go to Trop) and use their unrestricted bonus. I for one am fine just using the Tropicana bonus then riding off to the Borgata, since I feel like I get a little closer to hepatitis every time I enter Caesar's or Ballys.

I for one will never step in a CET casino in AC again. This was kind of the straw that broke the camels back for me, since I primarily get to AC by bus. Borgata gets all my action now, and I have no ill will towards the Trop either.
BedWetterBetter
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October 5th, 2015 at 1:49:02 PM permalink
I go to Taj for the most part, they give more money and have more early buses going there anyway.

Trop buses are limited (two I think) and they are usually the 2nd stop, so more wasted time.

I think another reason they implemented this system is because a few bad eggs were counterfeiting the coupons/bus vouchers and they finally caught on to it a year ago.

But seriously, there are dozens of people everyday that don't care for or even use their bus bonus. So CET seems to not realize the domino effect this system poses. Or maybe they do and they want to get rid of bus bonuses altogether?
SanchoPanza
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October 5th, 2015 at 2:09:14 PM permalink
Quote: BedWetterBetter

check the balance, then walk around for 10 minutes, go back to your machine and check again. Or sit there like a statue and wait while the time slowly passes.

Ahem, you're not supposed to "sit there like a statue." You're supposed to be inserting your own funds and be playing.
darkoz
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October 5th, 2015 at 2:18:24 PM permalink
Yes, the CET properties in AC switched over to downloads most likely to confound the counterfeiters. You can read more about that in my article here https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/other-casinos/21443-3rd-tale-of-the-hustling-wars/

As for the bonus lag time, up to 1/2 hour at CET, however the casino will not shut down your players card or comps if you take the bonus without additional play. Trop, Resorts and Taj will all do that although they have different strike amounts, i.e. Resorts will wait till you've done this about two straight weeks while Taj next door is two days only before card lock-out.

As for the regular calendar mail, there appears to be a glitch with offer availability since they switched over to their new system (this is the system where you no longer need separate distinct three digit codes for your offers which were only available by mail and which meant if you lost your mail or the post office never delivered it you were stuck without comps for an entire month - that didn't sit well with the regular customers). The glitch is not time based. Just pull your card out, wait a moment and re-insert. I have seen it take anywhere from one to four attempts but eventually it will appear.

All in all, the entire AC casino community seems intent on making offers as difficult to take as possible and then can't seem to understand why their business is slipping away to the surrounding states where none of this is generally an issue.
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BedWetterBetter
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October 5th, 2015 at 2:19:38 PM permalink
Well, you could also take a nap on the one-armed bandit, but they just don't offer the same comfort as a handicap stall!
darkoz
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October 5th, 2015 at 2:27:31 PM permalink
Quote: BedWetterBetter

Well, you could also take a nap on the one-armed bandit, but they just don't offer the same comfort as a handicap stall!



That's funny. One time I was taking a crap in the handicap stall (I think it was Trop) and I suddenly see a pair of eyes staring through the crack. First I shriveled up thinking it was just a guy checking to see if the stall was empty but the eyes didn't move. I suddenly yelled, "hey what the f--k!"

He replied, "It's security. I wanted to make sure you weren't sleeping in there."

"Yeah," I replied, "so your watching me take a sh-t?"

The guy started walking away saying he was just doing his job and if I had an issue I should take it up with his supervisor. I told him I intended to as the bathroom was the one place where there were no cameras for a reason -- so no one has their privacy invaded while doing their privacy."

In the end I didn't make a complaint. I didn't even see the guys face to identify him but it was pretty unnerving and disgusting.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
BedWetterBetter
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October 5th, 2015 at 2:31:02 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz



As for the bonus lag time, up to 1/2 hour at CET, however the casino will not shut down your players card or comps if you take the bonus without additional play. Trop, Resorts and Taj will all do that although they have different strike amounts, i.e. Resorts will wait till you've done this about two straight weeks while Taj next door is two days only before card lock-out.



I have not heard of or experienced this issue at either Taj or Resorts. Maybe you played two separate cards and combined the slot money?

I have constantly played only the free play at Resorts and Taj, with no lock out issues. But after a while, the free slot play disappears.

As for the re-insert card method, it has not worked in previous attempts. I tried switching machines, using different player cards in between and even *gasp* playing my own money! But that darn free play would not show up until much later.

I have double the offer at Harrahs, but this test run shows me I would probably have the same issue over there. And with the lack of return buses after 10 pm , I can't afford to chance it and end up staying all night. Certainly not for less than $50 in free play!
darkoz
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October 5th, 2015 at 3:15:24 PM permalink
Hmm, that's contrary to my experiences. especially at the Taj which is very strict.

What do you mean after awhile the free-play disappears? If you don't use it by 6am it disappears but then you simply didn't use it and won't be penalized. Otherwise what do you mean by disappearing?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Wizardofnothing
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October 5th, 2015 at 4:42:21 PM permalink
Do you really waste your time only going for the 25 dollar bus ride what does that come out to hourly?
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darkoz
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October 5th, 2015 at 5:03:47 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

Do you really waste your time only going for the 25 dollar bus ride what does that come out to hourly?



The bus ride is $38/45 on weekends. The rebate is $25 so there is no +EV on this. I don't waste my time riding for the rebate and there is no hourly.

However, as has been mentioned on other threads, one cannot discount the cost of expenses against your profit from +EV plays. In that regard, the bus bonus is one way of mitigating the expensive cost of riding the bus. Another way is to do a minimal (as little as $20 once or twice a month) play on a slot so you can get free hotels 3 days out of the week (even at $27 for taxes its cheaper than a boardwalk motel especially in summer). I wouldn't call these +EV plays but they are tools for the AP gambler.
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BedWetterBetter
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October 6th, 2015 at 7:44:44 AM permalink
I heard they may start negating tier point/comp dollar accumulation through Free play in AC. At Sands in PA they have a rating system where Free Slot play does NOT count towards Comp Dollars or Earned Rewards points for giveaways. So even if you burned through stacks of bonuses in one sitting at Sands, you would only get the winnings and nothing else.

CET would probably be the biggest advocate of this, if it does happen in AC, as they already found a way to hold on to Bus Bonus Slot Play as long as possible. Maybe they actually come to their senses and hang on to something beneficial to players that PA doesn't offer?
Boz
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October 6th, 2015 at 8:05:42 AM permalink
The stopped this at CZR AC a while back. Free play does not earn tier points.
darkoz
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October 6th, 2015 at 8:27:11 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

The stopped this at CZR AC a while back. Free play does not earn tier points.



BOZ is correct. CET does not earn points through free-play. The other places do but like I said, they are swift to lock or renege on offers.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
BedWetterBetter
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October 6th, 2015 at 8:28:58 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

The stopped this at CZR AC a while back. Free play does not earn tier points.



It does at Taj and Resorts. Half of my "free" gifts come through free slot play cycling. Now they have deviously raised the tier points earned requirement from a feasible 20 tier points to 150 and up (depending on the quality of the gift)

I wasn't sure about CET properties as I hardly play there , but it doesn't shock me that they start a trend of cutting player rewards at a time when they really can't afford to lose customers.
GWAE
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October 6th, 2015 at 8:47:35 AM permalink
Quote: BedWetterBetter

It does at Taj and Resorts. Half of my "free" gifts come through free slot play cycling. Now they have deviously raised the tier points earned requirement from a feasible 20 tier points to 150 and up (depending on the quality of the gift)

I wasn't sure about CET properties as I hardly play there , but it doesn't shock me that they start a trend of cutting player rewards at a time when they really can't afford to lose customers.



But those are the customers that they can afford to lose. Why would they want the people who only collect free play and gifts.
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jetermacaw
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October 6th, 2015 at 9:00:14 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

The stopped this at CZR AC a while back. Free play does not earn tier points.



After you cycle free play through at CZR you with start to accrue tier credits.
darkoz
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October 6th, 2015 at 9:09:27 AM permalink
Quote: BedWetterBetter

It does at Taj and Resorts. Half of my "free" gifts come through free slot play cycling. Now they have deviously raised the tier points earned requirement from a feasible 20 tier points to 150 and up (depending on the quality of the gift)

I wasn't sure about CET properties as I hardly play there , but it doesn't shock me that they start a trend of cutting player rewards at a time when they really can't afford to lose customers.



It's still 20 points. They base the points needed on your activity. As you have been cycling free-play for the gifts, it has affected the points requirement. It can go as high as 1000 tier points for high end gifts like DVD players, etc. But its still 20 if you have gambling history that legitimizes the lower tier requirement.
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TwoFeathersATL
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October 6th, 2015 at 9:15:07 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

BOZ is correct. CET does not earn points through free-play. The other places do but like I said, they are swift to lock or renege on offers.


Interesting. CET.
I have not dealt with free play, I get occasional offers for free slot play, but have never used one since I don't care for slots, and my time in these houses of ill repute is extremely limited. I do get a bunch of free cash offers from my home casino, lots of them. Says on it "free cash", take it to the cage on the correct dates, they give you cash, stacks of Franklins. I have always sat down and played after redeeming, actually usually played prior to redeeming, and again after redeeming. Anyone got an opinion on whether CET is sophisticated enough to calculate that free cash into my rated table play such that it changes my Tier Points and/or Reward Points to levels different than if I played without redeeming an offer? There may very well be some difference in my 'timing' that I should consider.....
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
DRich
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October 6th, 2015 at 11:53:16 AM permalink
From a casino perspective I think they should all go to "match play" as opposed to free play. That way at least you know the person you are attracting has some money to potentially lose.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
darkoz
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October 6th, 2015 at 12:18:47 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

From a casino perspective I think they should all go to "match play" as opposed to free play. That way at least you know the person you are attracting has some money to potentially lose.



Sounds logical except the players the casino values most are slots players. They won't be happy forced to play at tables and I never heard of a slot machine match play.

Turning Stone in Upstate NY had a must pay back free-play. You got to keep only the overage win of what the free-play value was. So if you had $100 free-play and were left with $102 after playing through all of it, then you got to keep $2. To them it was free play and no ev. Most of the time people left with nothing, having already lost the full value of the free-play i.e. if you were left with $99 in the machine, you could keep playing but not be able to redeem the credits.

Turning Stone made a BIG promotional push about how they eliminated this process for "REAL FREE-PLAY" on their website about two years ago. It was a disaster with their customers who were not enticed by the free-play to come back to that casino.
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DRich
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October 6th, 2015 at 12:55:52 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Sounds logical except the players the casino values most are slots players. They won't be happy forced to play at tables and I never heard of a slot machine match play.



Slot machine match play definitely exists. Places may call it different things but it is still the same. Play $50 coin in and then the $50 free play gets added. As fas as I know almost all of the player tracking systems could do that or similar. Even if it is a manual process the boothling could not put the free play on your account until you play x amount.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Ibeatyouraces
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October 6th, 2015 at 12:59:21 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Slot machine match play definitely exists. Places may call it different things but it is still the same. Play $50 coin in and then the $50 free play gets added. As fas as I know almost all of the player tracking systems could do that or similar. Even if it is a manual process the boothling could not put the free play on your account until you play x amount.


Lots of places in Vegas do this. There are a few coupons in the ACG for this.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
darkoz
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October 6th, 2015 at 2:03:48 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Slot machine match play definitely exists. Places may call it different things but it is still the same. Play $50 coin in and then the $50 free play gets added. As fas as I know almost all of the player tracking systems could do that or similar. Even if it is a manual process the boothling could not put the free play on your account until you play x amount.



Interesting. I suppose they technically already do this in AC. If you take your free-play (as has been discussed here and in other threads) without additional play they lock your account. Additional play isn't just one extra spin past your free-play. It is a somewhat nebulous amount (they don't tell you how much will keep your card from locking) but more than likely the amount required would come out to the same as $50 coin-in for $50 free-play.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
BedWetterBetter
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October 6th, 2015 at 2:53:00 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Interesting. I suppose they technically already do this in AC. If you take your free-play (as has been discussed here and in other threads) without additional play they lock your account. Additional play isn't just one extra spin past your free-play. It is a somewhat nebulous amount (they don't tell you how much will keep your card from locking) but more than likely the amount required would come out to the same as $50 coin-in for $50 free-play.



$20 seems to work for me, if what you are saying about Taj implementing this procedure is true. I can't attest that this is the amount that satisfies the requirement for everyone, but it is my donation to avoid lock out.

I have also recently used a friend's free slot play, without any additional play, for a whole month and no such lock out occurred on that account.

As for the Slot match play, Revel sort of did this with their free play offers. You had to put in cash and place a bet, then the credit would be added back to your total after each spin until you have exhausted the full amount of free play. Seemed more like a trap to the uninformed who would think they could keep playing and the magical credits keep re-appearing on the screen. But in the end, it was probably just another 1 of the 10,001 reasons why the Revel tanked!
darkoz
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October 6th, 2015 at 3:13:00 PM permalink
Quote: BedWetterBetter

$20 seems to work for me, if what you are saying about Taj implementing this procedure is true. I can't attest that this is the amount that satisfies the requirement for everyone, but it is my donation to avoid lock out.

I have also recently used a friend's free slot play, without any additional play, for a whole month and no such lock out occurred on that account.

As for the Slot match play, Revel sort of did this with their free play offers. You had to put in cash and place a bet, then the credit would be added back to your total after each spin until you have exhausted the full amount of free play. Seemed more like a trap to the uninformed who would think they could keep playing and the magical credits keep re-appearing on the screen. But in the end, it was probably just another 1 of the 10,001 reasons why the Revel tanked!



Who knows, perhaps they eliminated doing the lockouts. The last time I was locked out was last summer prior to their almost bankruptcy. Perhaps they decided part of their financial problems was related to shutting players cards down.

I should point out that a host last summer at Taj informed me the lockout was not to punish the players but because they had been hit by a ring of pin-breakers, people who used a home computer to swipe lost cards and crack pins, then steal comps. The lockouts were for the players protection. Perhaps they had enough complaints from the legit players they eliminated it.

I personally do not plan on finding out.
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darkoz
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October 6th, 2015 at 3:14:24 PM permalink
However, the Tropicana and Resorts are MOST definitely locking cards for lack of play to punish the free-play abusers.
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beachbumbabs
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October 6th, 2015 at 6:12:13 PM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Interesting. CET.
I have not dealt with free play, I get occasional offers for free slot play, but have never used one since I don't care for slots, and my time in these houses of ill repute is extremely limited. I do get a bunch of free cash offers from my home casino, lots of them. Says on it "free cash", take it to the cage on the correct dates, they give you cash, stacks of Franklins. I have always sat down and played after redeeming, actually usually played prior to redeeming, and again after redeeming. Anyone got an opinion on whether CET is sophisticated enough to calculate that free cash into my rated table play such that it changes my Tier Points and/or Reward Points to levels different than if I played without redeeming an offer? There may very well be some difference in my 'timing' that I should consider.....



Since you ask for opinions, I'll offer one. Your free cash is a straight write-off to them, not an amount that goes back against your play rating when you buy chips and play at tables, and not when you feed the slots with the bonus Benjamins you just collected at the cage. You're ranked as a top-tier desirable player (no matter what rewards tier), and they're willing to give you a goodie bag of perks and cash to get you to come in. The kind of rewards you're describing are similar to what I receive from CET properties, and they tailor them to your importance to them. However, I don't work for CET or know their proprietary marketing info, so not trying to represent this as factual; I'm just a long-time beneficiary.

They may not be calling it this any more, but the sales line was..."and you also get....(something)!" So the lowest rank gets room rate discounts, then free rooms. Then they add the coupons/package items, in approx. this order: money towards food, free play on slots or tables, promotional gifts (stuff) which personally has ranged from Ginsu Knives and crock pots to 2CT diamond bracelets, Iphones, leather jackets, cruise tickets (which I swear cost them nothing because casinos-at-sea -NCL- wants the referrals 'cuz there's nothing like a captive gambler with a casino on board), tournament entry fees paid, reward credits added to your account, discounted fees/free tix to shows (a whole subset of value range there) cage cash for a sliding scale of money, full RFB/resort fees/valet parking, limo from airport, plane tickets, bedroom suites, spa treatments, special invite-only tournaments, private parties for holidays or featuring known entertainers, and that's about as high as I've ever rolled but I know there's a whole bunch more levels up. The stuff they have to pay for, like spa treatments (which are 3rd party contractors) seem to be the hardest to get.

All of that stuff is valued within the groups that incur them, at dollar amounts directed at your past play. For example, one weekend in AC there were 3 lines for promotions; 1 for the 2CT diamond bracelet, 1 for the cruise (which we were allowed to collect both - unusual), and 1 for a crock pot. Not a lot of overlap on who was offered what between the bracelet and the crock pot (and it was a nice crock pot, but the bracelet retailed for $500+, the crock pot for $30). The point of listing some of their options above was that they add stuff, kind of a la carte, to reflect your value, and attract you with a variety of things on which they can also vary the value of each thing.

Another example, 2F (you) gets cash money offers at least 10x the value of mine, but I do get them. You're willing to bet 1K or better at times; I rarely bet more than 100/hand, and have to work up to that, so it's understandably proportional in value. Probably a lot of others on here never get the cage cash offers (or even knew CET offered it), they just get free play, where they have to try to earn the money, not just collect it, and others below that would be match play, where you have to put up your own money AND earn it. But all of it has value. If 2F just took his coupons to the cage and cashed them and walked out, nobody would stop him. But he'd only get to do it once, most likely.

Looking at any random room comp night, 2F can probably get a room or suite comped at Cherokee any time he wants it. I can get comped weekdays and some Saturdays, but will get a rate quote on a busy Saturday. The next tier down would maybe get "sold out" on Saturday, maybe a day or two comped, reduced rates other nights. And all of us looking at the same website, same night.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
zoobrew
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October 6th, 2015 at 7:43:51 PM permalink
I think that one wrinkle to offers is that different states have different regulations and approval process for offers. So what a casino may be able to do in LV won't be allowed in PA. Most offers I get in PA & OH say pending gaming commission approval. In PA the state tax on slots is I think 55% and much lower on table games, so I would think that tax regulations could also effect free play offers between different states.
darkoz
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October 6th, 2015 at 8:01:39 PM permalink
Quote: zoobrew

I think that one wrinkle to offers is that different states have different regulations and approval process for offers. So what a casino may be able to do in LV won't be allowed in PA. Most offers I get in PA & OH say pending gaming commission approval. In PA the state tax on slots is I think 55% and much lower on table games, so I would think that tax regulations could also effect free play offers between different states.



I don't think free-play is taxable. For one thing it's coming out of the casino's pocket. I know in AC when you are comped a dinner, the tax is voided.

On the other hand, in AC when you are comped a hotel room, taxes are added. But that may be specialized hotel taxes as opposed to regular sales tax.
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beachbumbabs
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October 6th, 2015 at 8:44:49 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I don't think free-play is taxable. For one thing it's coming out of the casino's pocket. I know in AC when you are comped a dinner, the tax is voided.

On the other hand, in AC when you are comped a hotel room, taxes are added. But that may be specialized hotel taxes as opposed to regular sales tax.



It's been a while so this could be out of date, but I was told it was a NJ state surcharge at a flat rate (think it was $8 at the time) per room regardless of rack rate.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
jetermacaw
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October 10th, 2015 at 7:58:55 AM permalink
Current comp rate at CZR AC, for Diamond And 7* is:

Subtotal: $0.00
Room Type: PREM KING NSMK Adults:
Resort/Other Fees: $5.00
Room Total: $5.00
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